Flashes 1 & 3

At the Weekly Crisis, Eric Rupe wrote an article entitled The Death of the Legacy Character. The piece centers around the DC Comics characters Green Lantern Kyle Rayner and Wally “Flash” West, being replaced by their predecessors, Hal Jordan and Barry Allen respectively. It’s very well thought out and makes some good points, but I still disagree with some of his conclusions. But first, a little back story for those who came in late:

Don't worry, kid. He's only trying to break the record for being dead.

Don't worry, kid. He's only trying to break the record for being dead.

As a boy, Wally was a big fan of the “Fastest Man Alive”, only to find out he was the same guy romantically linked to his Aunt Iris. After getting super speed powers of his own, Wally became the Flash’s sidekick, Kid Flash, and later one of the founding members of the original Teen Titans, a Justice League style team-up of sidekicks. Wally would become the regular Flash after Barry sacrificed himself during the event known as Crisis on Infinite Earths (CoIE), DC’s attempt to recompile their multiverse into one, coherent universe. (Someday I should go into why that failed, and wasn‘t really necessary.)

Kyle was given a Green Lantern ring when Hal had gone insane following the destruction of Coast City, his chosen fighting ground. Hal took on the name “Parallax”, having wiped out the Green Lantern Corp and failed to rewrite time so Coast City would be safe. (Kyle himself was forced to destroy what was left of Oa to stop him.) Through circumstances I’m not privy to, Hal redeemed himself, was free of the alien creature that was the actual source of Parallax (because heroes can‘t do wrong on their own) and became the new Spectre, God’s agent of vengeance in the DCU.

While Barry’s death was a noble sacrifice, Hal’s turn to the dark side upset a lot of Green Lantern fans, which is where the “alien creature” comes into play. That and the destruction of the Green Lantern Corps at his hands. Whatever (rather foolish) reason DC had at the time, at least he did get a sense of redemption by becoming the Spectre. Recently, however, Kyle helped create a new Corp, and Hal (again, through events I’m not privy to, although I do know that somewhere in all this Hal actually died and came back to life through questionable events) was restored to normal, putting Kyle in many fans eyes on the back burner, as it were, and now we’re hearing of other color Lanterns, each with their own functions. Kind of sad for Kyle fans, although a case can be made that it’s long overdue considering how Kyle replaced Hal.

Didn't the Guardians teach you any...oh, right. My bad!

However, there is more controversy in the return of Barry Allen, who for years was one of the select few who remained dead, as a way to convince us that death actually does mean something in the DCU. This has changed with Dan Didio as the man in charge of DC Comics, one of many changes that I refer to as the “backsliding timeline”, a take on the “sliding timeline” concept that keeps moving character’s origins to a different calendar date so the characters never age, thus making them forever marketable in the eyes of The Powers That Be. The “backsliding timeline” is when any character growth is undone to place the characters back in a position TPTB think was the “right” moment of the character (in other words, more marketable in their view). The Spider-Marriage over at Marvel is another example, so if you’ve read my previous articles, you have some idea where I’m going with this.

Please go and read the original article first, so you can understand what he means by “waves” and whatnot and be sure I haven‘t messed with the context. I’ll wait.

Personally I haven’t used the phrase “Silver Age Fanboys” when “Fanfic Brigade” gets my opinion across so much better. 🙂 Anyway, he does note that Hal and Barry shouldn’t qualify as “legacy characters” since pre-Crisis they existed in a separate universe and time period. However, I’m sure there were a few people back then (when there was no internet or comic store for comic readers to gather around and complain to each other about these things) who were wondering what these new people were doing with old names. Even then, Barry still gets a pass since it was stated in the beginning that the Jay Garrick version of the Flash was a comic book in Barry’s world, and a source of inspiration when he developed his own speed powers.

On the other hand, I’m pretty sure there was some shock on the level of Battlestar Galactica when it came to Hal. The legacy is in the name, and Alan Scott’s fans from way back probably didn’t enjoy the change. The difference is Hal was given the time to make the name his own, as did Barry. Which leads me to my first quote:

Kyle Rayner and Wally West don’t have independent origins. They are directly linked to their predecessors, Hal Jordan and Barry Allen’s removal/deaths. Hal become Parallax which led to Ganthet, the last Guardian, making Kyle the last Green Lantern while Barry died back in CoIE.

Barry and Hal, as second wave characters, have truly independent origins from their first wave counterparts while Wally and Kyle “need” Barry and Hal as the catalyst for their existence as characters. Looking at it objectively, Hal and Barry are “better” characters than either Kyle or Wally because of this.

For a simple example of this, in Justice League Unlimited, the Flash was Wally’s personality with Barry’s origin and history. This applies to several other legacy characters featured in the DC animated universe. It’s a glaring flaw in many otherwise solid characters.

From what I can tell, Barry didn’t have much of a personality and Wally doesn’t have a job. Besides, what’s really that different between the origins? Wally was also doused with electrified chemicals, so how can you change that without getting into Smallville territory (where origins are drastically altered and mostly center around either Kryptonite or Luthorcorp–including Cyborg, who isn’t connected to the Superman wing of the DCU at all). And if we’re getting into the DCAU (the fan name for a group of DC-based cartoons that at the time formed it’s own continuity as well as mature writing and mostly shared voice actors), what about Kyle? He wasn’t tossed aside by Hal, but by John Stewart, who wasn’t even a Green Lantern at the time. Meanwhile, Kyle himself showed up in Superman: The Animated Series with no connection to Hal. Hal only shows up in one episode when the timeline is being messed around with, and could be considered an homage at best. Until The Batman, when Hal was already on the way back, the only post-Superfriends appearance of Hal Jordan is Duck Dodgers, which took place in the 24 ½ century.

Look at Batman the Animated Series and, by extension, the rest of the DCAU. Many of the second wave characters appeared in either Batman, Superman or Justice League. Both Batgirl and Supergirl appeared in the series, but not as the “fan favorite” versions that first appeared post-Crisis (i.e., neither Cassandra Cain nor Matrix/Linda Danvers versions appeared). In the Batgirl’s case, it was the Barbara Gordon version featured in Batman: TAS and, again, in The Batman. When it came to Supergirl, she was Superman’s “cousin”, ala the Silver Age.

They can't even get my hair right?

Well who’s fault is that? Superman used Kyle, Justice League and Static Shock used John, and while Batman: TAS and the two sequel shows, The Adventures of Batman and Robin and The New Batman/Superman Adventures, which finally used Tim Drake and made Dick into Nightwing (Jason Todd left far behind as fans didn’t like him much) decided to introduce the Barbara Gordon character. And as Eric notes, Cassandra wasn’t Batgirl at the time TAS came out, but (as he doesn’t note), Barbara, who had been shot and paralyzed by the Joker in the graphic novel The Killing Joke before this, was still involved with the Batfamily as Oracle (who really should have been used in TAS, but then the writers wouldn’t have been able to use the Dick/Barbara romance in various stories..at least not in the ways they did).

One of the commenters brought up the animated version of Teen Titans, which used characters who weren’t members of the team in the comics, and another (if you can keep all the “anonymous” commenters straight) remarked that some of the characters might not have been considered friendly for a kids show:

Yeah but Teen Titans was aim for a younger audience, Cassandra a bit too extreme, Speedy has AIDS, Bart died, and did the new Blue Beetle even exist during teen titans?

That's more like it!

That's more like it!

No, Jamie Reyes, the current Blue Beetle, who replaced the murdered Ted Kord (himself a “legacy” name character, taken from a Charleston Comics character who is now considered the first Beetle in the DCU Proper), wasn’t around. However, Cassie Sandsmark (the current Wonder Girl, not to be confused with the soon-to-be ex-Batgirl Cassandra Cain) could have been toned down (most of the other characters aren’t an exact match for their counterpart, and they toned down much of Terra and Slade’s character from the comic), and Speedy was a recurring character in the last couple of seasons, with no mention of having AIDS or his previous drug habit (much like his one appearance in the current Batman: The Brave and the Bold series). Even if Teen Titans had been closer in tone to the DCAU (which it should have been, since it aired alongside Justice League Unlimited and was teased in Static Shock), they didn’t have to match the source as much. Power Girl (unnamed, but as obvious as the homages to the original Superfriends characters) in the DCAU is an aged clone of Supergirl, created by Project Cadmus (the “pet project” of former Superman ally Dr. Hamilton after the finale of Superman: TAS), and a hit woman for Cadmus. I could list other examples as well. Unlike Smallville, the DCAU knew how to play with origins while respecting what came before. (It’s why I stopped watching Smallville, besides watching it turn into a superpowered Dawson’s Creek.)

There’s no reason why the writers couldn’t have used Kyle or Wally, and I brought up in my review of the Flash pilot that CBS should have used Wally in the first place, since it was so divorced from events in Barry’s time and uses some of Wally’s supporting cast, like Tina McGee.

By using these characters in television, these are the versions that people are going to be most familiar with. One of the hoped for side effects of doing things like TV shows is to get more people to read comics. If a person’s favorite character from the show isn’t in the comics, then DC has more than likely lost or alienated a customer.

This is why Cassandra Cain, Linda Danvers and most of DC’s legacy characters are not the best possible versions of these characters – they simply don’t match what the public perceives Batgirl and Supergirl, or anyone else, should be, which isn’t good for DC’s comic versions either.

So, why not make the animated versions match up with the most recent versions? Well, sometimes the newest legacy character appeared after the TV show aired(Cassandra Cain) or their origins are too complicated(Matrix/Danvers Supergirl) and this basically means that the creation of a third version or hybrid of Silver Age and modern versions of the character would be necessary.

The best I could find at scans_daily--oddly the only Batgirl comics I have are the animated version

One of these things are not like the other.

The Batman was a redo on the early days of Batman, with a younger Bruce Wayne from the start. So even though Cain was Batgirl at the time and Tim was Robin, it wouldn’t have fit to use them in this series. And like Eric said, Cain didn’t come along until the DCAU had already finished it’s run. I’m also not sure they couldn’t have used Matrix/Danvers in some way (obviously not with the paranormal/devil worshiping parts), but perhaps with Supergirl being another step in the Bizarro project, much as Steel’s origins were tied, for better or worse, with Lexcorp, or something along those lines. Also, I’d have to check, but I’m not sure Supergirl/Matrix was around at the time, so they went with the Kryptonian girl, who wasn’t actually Kal-El’s cousin. She just took on the “secret identity” of Clark’s cousin to explain why she was living with the Kents.

The primary reason that I see for Wally and Kyle not laying claim to the name is the writers wouldn’t allow them. Thanks to the orders from on high by TPTB that growth be limited unless they can get some PR out of it (or can be later “fixed” via the backsliding timeline), such as allegedly reaching an ethnic group by replacing Blue Beetle with a Latino kid, Wally always has to end up in Barry’s shadow rather than claiming the name as his own. The same for Kyle, who actually took down Hal on a few occasions (and wanted to be Superman, so he didn’t have the hero worship that Wally had for Barry). It’s the same thought process that kept the Lois/Clark/Superman triangle going far too long for anyone to not question Lois’s reporter skills. It’s also the same thought process that leads to stories being recycled over and over. (“Look, Batman’s gone and Superman left the Earth. Again!”)

[Jamie’s] history as a character also has something that distinguishes him from many of the other legacy characters – a TV show. While not specifically a Blue Beetle show, he has appeared on Batman: The Brave and The Bold twice.

This is one reason why he will probably succeed where so many others have failed – mainstream exposure. Jaime Reyes is now the Blue Beetle that people outside comics will know about and if they get the urge to check his comic book adventures, he will be there as well.

This could have been done in the past, and did with Kyle and Wally. (Mostly Wally, since they went with John for GL in Justice League for whatever reasons they had, using Kyle maybe once more since his appearance in Superman.) Also, they did a whole episode that involved Ted Kord as the prior Blue Beetle, with a different reason for Jamie to assume the title, but not really matching Ted. (Ted never uses the Scarab in B:TBATB, but does have a love of gadgets–and isn’t as big a screwball as he was depicted in later comics.)

Basically, DC is undoing something that should have never really been done in the first place. This is not to say that any DC’s legacy characters are mistakes, but, rather, they should have never eclipsed their predecessors in comics only. Many of them never made it into the public consciousness, which means they could never be as successful as the originals. Even among comic readers, Barbara Gordon is more likely to be know as Batgirl than Cassandra Cain

The only reason Kyle, Wally, Cain, and the other “third wave” legacy characters never succeeded, as I see it, is the simple fact that writers, editors, producers, and others in TPTB, both comics and TV, wouldn’t let them. Eric’s right that they shouldn’t have eclipsed their predecessors only in the comics. However, they’re going the wrong way to fix the problem. What should be done is getting the new namesakes “into the public consciousness”, not to give up. That doesn’t mean ignoring the older characters (they haven’t with Jay and Alan). It means letting Wally be the current Flash and Kyle the current Green Lantern, much as Jean-Luc Picard became the new captain of the U.S.S. Enterprise, but nobody expected to forget James T. Kirk.

Despite what was said in the comments, this is a case of letting the extended media affect the comics, which is one of my issues with Lois and Clark. (Although, bringing Alfred back wasn’t a bad thing, so yay for the Batman series. The yellow oval Bat symbol, however, never grew on me after seeing the old style.) If Hollywood respected the source material better, maybe video game movies wouldn’t be as bad as they are, and we might have had a better Catwoman movie, and less Schumacher films.

(note: Oddly, the only Batgirl images I have are from the DCAU-based comics, and the fanart of way early and early Batgirl was the fan art. Thanks to scans_daily fiasco, those were the only Batgirl images I could find.)


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About ShadowWing Tronix

A would be comic writer looking to organize his living space as well as his thoughts. So I have a blog for each goal. :)

9 responses »

  1. Eric Rupe's avatar Eric Rupe says:

    Wow, I’m going to have to read this a couple more times but yeah, lots of good ideas.

    Also, is the first animated GL pic supposed to be Kyle because he looks a lot like Hal.

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    • ShadowWing Tronix's avatar ShadowWing Tronix says:

      That’s why I made the hair comment. In the episode, Kyle is a graphic artist for the Daily Planet. They did use the Abin Sur bit (because those writers weren’t giving Kyle a break either, but for all I know DC made them change it to Kyle at the last minute), but deviates quite a bit, kind of like the Jason Todd elements in Tim Drakes’s story in the Batman show when it moved from Fox to WB (not to be confused with the other WB Batman show outside of the DCAU). Here’s a recap, but a lot of spoilers if you’re catching the show on Disney XD, DVD, or wherever you are on the planet.

      The second one is from his JLU appearance, and they got the hair right, but unlike the Superman episode, you don’t see him out of costume. Here’s that recap.

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  2. Eric Rupe's avatar Eric Rupe says:

    Some quick notes about Hal’s return. Hal dies, as Parallax, in Final Night to reignite the Sun. After that he become the Spectre then there was a mini called Green Lantern: Rebirth in which he returns as a Green Lantern and it was revealed that he was under the control of a fear being called Parallax. The Guardians, who Kyle recreated (not the Corps), decided to reform the Corps afterwards.

    As for Parallax, he relates to the new Lantern Corps. There are now seven of them each relating to an emotion. Biggest example would be the Sinestro Corps, the yellow group whose rings are powered by the ability to instill fear in others. Anyway, all of this stuff is the basis for the Blackest Night event that is starting up soon.

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  3. Eric Rupe's avatar Eric Rupe says:

    -From what I can tell, Barry didn’t have much of a personality and Wally doesn’t have a job. Besides, what’s really that different between the origins?

    Barry didn’t have a personality because a lot of Silver Age characters didn’t have a personality till more recently. Wally is a mechanic in the comics and is actually a member of the Keystone City CSI, or whatever they are actually called, team in the JLU, which is what Barry’s job in the comics was. It was in the episode with the Rogues and Flash Museum. Also, Wally was Kid Flash before he become the Flash so that is part of his origin.

    John Stewart was chosen simply because he is black from what I’ve heard.

    The Speedy with AIDS is actually, Mia Dearden, a character created by Kevin Smith when he relaunched Green Arrow.

    You are right that I forgot that Barbara wasn’t Batgirl in the comics at the time, but if you wanted to use Batgirl in the B:TAS, you had to use her, so they did. From what I’ve read, there was actually a Barbara as Oracle episode of JLU planned but it was scraped for some reason.

    As to your idea that they failed because the writers wouldn’t let them succeed, I agreed to certain degree but many of them didn’t really catch on in the comics that well to being with. I mean, look at Connor Hawke who was replaced by Ollie well before all of the current upheaval at DC. A good four years before Rebirth in fact. It was a stunning success and probably set DC on the path it is currently on. I mean, the fact that DC can bring back Ollie and Hal and have improved sales is probably evident of the fact that either they are actually more popular that the successors or fans don’t really care one way or the other. You may have a point with Kyle not being allowed to succeed on his own but he hasn’t been tossed either, being a key player in the current Green Lantern Corps book and looking to have a major role in Blackest Night.

    If Kyle and Wally and Connor and Cass were truly entrenched in the comic book world then DC couldn’t get away with removing but they have. And the fact that are not staples of the comic book world means that they would have had an even harder time succeed outside of comics, at least in my opinion.

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    • ShadowWing Tronix's avatar ShadowWing Tronix says:

      –I spent most of the Silver Age reading Transformers, and I’m not sure where Firestorm fits in the timeline (there is disagreement as to when most ages start and stop in fandom), so I do claim little knowledge. The first Flash comic I picked up was during Wally’s time (interestingly, because of the TV series–also picked up the TV Special based in that universe), and Superfriends seldom crossed into the secret identity realm. (Even Justice League, not Unlimited, went there more often, but still usually ignored.) So I admit to knowing practically nothing about Barry first hand outside of John Wesley’s portrayal.

      –I heard the same about John. They wanted a multicultural cast or something. I do give the DCAU crew credit for making more use of him than Pete on Smallville. The actually made a character of John, and a darn good one. Still, Hal’s only appearance on JLU was during some messing around with space/time. Otherwise, his last two appearances was a cameo on Duck Dodgers and his use in the previous Batman cartoon. Probably only us “old-timers” even know who Hal Jordan is until The Batman.

      –I have nothing against Wally referring to his late mentor at all. Living in his shadow is another thing, and with the supposed edict that the characters never change from their most marketable status (forcing even Marvel characters to become victims of the “backsliding timeline”, a term I made up and I’m sure I mentioned somewhere if not on this site), Wally will never be more than Kid Flash in the writers’ eyes, but not his fans.

      –Kyle may not be gone, but he used to head the GL title, and now he’s just part of the ensemble. Personally, I wouldn’t have minded if the Corp hadn’t come back, but I’m sure that’s one return many fans would disagree with me on.

      –Kevin Smith. That just says so much. None of it good. Anyway, I was only going by the comments on your article, as I really didn’t follow Green Arrow, and only new about Speedy’s drug habit thanks to that anti-drug PSA comic with the Teen Titans.

      –I still maintain that had Cass or any of the others had gotten fair treatment by the non-comics arms (Firestorm only appears once on the show in the background, but I’m sure they were using the classic version in the JLU comic, which was fine with me) as Blue Beetle (who, interestingly, is being canceled just as fans are warming up to Jaime after getting over Ted’s untimely and unnecessary demise), they may have gotten better treatment. Although, since Dan has specifically said he wanted to ditch Kyle and Wally in favor of Hal and Barry from day one of his taking charge, I have to doubt that. That’s part of why I refer to the as the Fanfic Brigade, and others feel him worthy of the “Silver Age Fanboy” term used in your article.

      –Man, this is long. I should have just done a follow-up article. 😀

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  4. Eric Rupe's avatar Eric Rupe says:

    Hmm, I guess the main problem I have is that I’m not sure that all of the 90s characters could have succeeded given a proper chance to begin with since all characters are not created equal. Specifically, I am talking about characters like Connor Hawke and the Matrix Supergirl who are lacking everything that made the original characters interesting and didn’t replace it with anything. As for Cass(Batgirl), I think her costume alone would probably make her a tough sell to a wider audience. Still not sure why DC uses it in the first place. Oh, and her whole speaking only with body language thing is a hard concept that was watered down relatively quickly in her career making her less interesting in my opinion.

    Also, the reason why I don’t buy into the whole “fanboy” argument is because Dick Grayson is still Nightwing, not Robin the Not A Boy Anymore Wonder. Hal and Barry are comic book icons so bringing them back does not necessarily denote fanboyism from my point of view, unless we are talking about Alex Ross. While writers like Johns and Morrison may have a love for Silver Age concepts, they still work with characters from across all of the Ages, for the most part. I mean, Kyle is still alive and a good guy. So, I shall remain skeptical until Nightwing regresses.

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    • ShadowWing Tronix's avatar ShadowWing Tronix says:

      I’m not sure Connor works at all (although what they did to him recently is worse), but with some slight alteration, Matrix Supergirl could have worked on a new generation who know nothing about Kara (unless they find the Supergirl movie playing during a moment of insomnia or in the bargin bin–underrated movie, actually, as it made me fall for the Girl of Steel over Wonder Woman when I was just entering puberty). My only problem with Cass’s Batgirl outfit is the sewed-up mouth area. Most of Cass’s problems come from the Suits in charge proclaming that Batman shouldn’t have a “family” and kept ordering him distanced from them.

      Dick was still Nightwing during what many fans consider the latter days of the Silver Age, but that nitpick aside, I’m not sure if they’re Silver Age fanboys or not. They are, however, Hal and Barry fanboys, although they are trying to bring some Silver Age aspects into the current age (hopefully just the good ones, but I don’t see a lot of the fun ones coming in). Some concepts, however, just don’t fit anymore, sad as it is. Superboy, for example, was ruined like a lot of stuff Byrne changed when he was charged with restarting the Superman francise. (Corporate Luthor is still stupid, and the criticial conservative in me sees it as a possible smack against capitalism and CEOs, which would fit beautifully into the current situation, but I’ll avoid the political rant here unless further prompted. Consider yourselves warned.:) )

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  5. […] I’ve rallied about the treatment of “legacy characters” more than once here, and may well do so again, not to mention my ranting about the treatment […]

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