Could A Sony Spiderverse Movie Work Without Spider-Man?

While looking for article topics and Saturday article links, this article on Bleeding Fool caught my attention not from the story itself but one of the comments. Weird things get my brain working sometimes. The article itself is Dakota Johnson blaming committee meddling for the failings of the Madame Web movie because apparently the only good committee in movies was Marvel’s committee charged with keeping the adaptations accurate…and that’s the one Disney fired. She didn’t take the usual approach of blaming the fans for not getting it or being sexist against women as superheroes or the usual comments you hear from actors and actresses when these movies bomb.

The strange thing, the comment that got my mind going is a statement we’ve all heard from critics and even I’ve made. Maybe it was the wording: “Blame whoever said a Spiderverse movie series without Spiderman was a good idea.” Missing hyphen aside, it’s not like that comment hasn’t been made many times by many people, myself included, but for some reason that sentence on that day got me thinking…could a Spiderverse movie without the titular Spider work? Could you use the extended Spider-Man cast and rogues gallery without Spider-Man? I mean, The Penguin has been very well received, and it’s Oswald Cobblepot without Batman. I think someone said he’s only mentioned once and never truly shows up. I don’t have HBO Max (glad they went back to that name) and it’s tied to the Matt Reeves version of Batman I’m not interested in, but you see my point, right?

So why does that succeed and movies following Spider-Man’s extended cast from Sony turn out so bad? The movies ranging from mediocre to hot LA trash probably doesn’t help, and then being bad adaptations on top of it makes it impossible to save on any level. Is that the problem? Were the movies just bad? Could Sony have done something good instead of the movies we got? Maybe there is a way to do a movie with Spider-characters even if Peter or possibly Miles never show up?

I’m not talking about an Aunt May movie. Sony might have de-aged the usually close-to-death aunt but following…whatever it is this Aunt May does, date Happy or something…it doesn’t really sound all that exciting. J. Jonah Jameson could be a story from his past in the days before all the superheroes. Maybe one of the explanations for why Jameson hates Spider-Man could make for a good story. I don’t know how many people would really want to see it, but it’s not out of the realm of possibility. Whatever flaws “Jolly Jonah” has, he earned his way from cub reporter to newspaper publisher. Use it to set up something for a later Spider-Man movie. Disney wouldn’t have to pay for it, but would still be wise (rare for modern Disney) to take advantage of that. It’ll still have Marvel Studios’ name on it, at least in people’s minds who don’t know about the Sony/Disney deal involved with getting Spider-Man into the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

Not that Sony currently cares about proper adaptation in their live-action productions. After not letting Marvel use the iconic parts of the lore except the costume and web-shooters out of misplaced fear it would bomb while the MCU was still on it’s heights, none of their movies were good adaptations. That’s okay in this case because we’re speculating on what would happen if the live-action Sony movies had at least as much care as the animated Spiderverse movies focusing on Miles Morales. Thus far those films have been pretty well received and is the first time Miles has interested anyone since he left his version of the Ultimate universe. The question is could the existing Spider-Film ideas or any in the future work without the #1 web-slinger involved? Look at what did come out.

• Morbius: We don’t need his origin in Spider-Man’s movie, but like a lot of these using the movie to setup a future MCU appearance could work. Let this movie handle Michael Morbius being a victim of his experiments, turned into a vampire by science rather than the supernatural.
• Venom: This would have to work in reverse. Have the black symbiote suit show up in a Spider-Man movie, have him wrestle with it, and then get rid of it. Now Sony picks up Eddie Brock’s side of the story and tells us what happens next. Maybe Eddie isn’t angry at Spider-Man, or their quest to hunt Peter down just happened to take place during the Snap so now they have to find other things to do, leading to them becoming the “lethal enforcer” from later in the comics. When Peter is restored, Eddie finally understands him and the symbiote feels Eddie is a better host/partner, so they let him be. Now Sony can do more Venom movies (hopefully better than they actually had) and nobody would think twice about it.
• Kraven The Hunter: Making him an anti-hero like they did was just wrong. Granted I’m going by what little I’ve actually heard about the movie, how they wanted him protecting the animals instead of hunting them, and the movie opening with a hard to believe version of him going after a target in prison. If you want to introduce him for a potential Spider-hunt, just make this his origin story, end the movie with him finding a copy of the Daily Bugle after hunting…I don’t know, poachers who work against the true spirit of the hunt or someone after the formula that was used to give him his enhanced abilities since he was romantically attached to the doctor who made it in the comics, his “calypso”. Introduce her as a villain in a later Spider-Man movie after he hunts Spider-Man or make looking for her part of the first meeting. That team-up leads to a sequel where Kraven hunts Spider-Man, who managed to stop him from killing the bad guys and either helped restore her or fail to save her (adding that tragic element) or just sees him as a worthy target. Kraven might have worked with Spidey for the same goals, but that doesn’t mean he would be a good guy.
• The Lizard: Never made it out of development hell, but it’s the same deal as Michael Morbius. Have Kurt Connor’s transformation happen in this movie, find a way to make a full story out of it, maybe villains coming for his formula as it slowly turns him evil, then make him the next Spider-foe. Each of the Sinister Six should be introduced on their own or in Spider-Man movies, but since it’s basically a “Spider-Man Revenge Squad”, they’d all have to cross paths or have a reason to hate Spider-Man enough to join. I don’t see an Electro movie having a future, but Doctor Octopus? Maybe? I don’t see any sequels out of any of them, though Morbius did have his own comic for awhile.

Turns out they slapped the name on an original character. Typical for Sony with or without Marvel Studios.

As for Madame Web, that movie did everything wrong it possibly could just from an outside view. Madame Web is given Jessica Drew’s origin, though whether or not the first Spider-Woman qualifies as a Spider-Man character and thus under the rules of Sony’s original deal with Marvel Comics pre-Disney could certainly be up for debate. While sharing part of a concept, Jessica Drew was created independent of Spider-Man, just an excuse to make sure the Golden Age ripoffs didn’t include girl derivative Spider-Man. If there was going to be a Spider-Woman then she would be a Marvel character, and with more moral rights than Captain Marvel. The movie also gave us bad teenage versions of the first 616 Spider-Girl (not alternate future Peter’s daughter), another Spider-Woman (Julia Carpenter, the one that inspired Venom’s look when Peter used the wrong alien machine to create a costume), and Araña, Silk dodging a bullet her spider-sense couldn’t warn her about.

Admittedly none of these characters save Jessica could have held their own movie even with a proper comic adaptation. Madame Web herself has potential if Marvel Studios found a way to work her into the Spider-Man movie but nobody wants Sony’s version no matter how happy the actress would be to finally be doing Marvel Studios. (She allegedly fired her agent when she found out she wasn’t joining the MCU.) I doubt Spider-Boy could either, or the various Spider-Clones.

Yeah, how would the Spider-Clones work? Ben Reilly, the first Scarlet Spider, would be the easiest and even that would require some games. Could they get Tom Holland to play Ben inbetween Peter’s MCU appearances? How does the use of Peter or Ben work in the deal they have going? By the time you get to Spidercide the MCU might have run its course even if Disney and on-his-own Kevin Feige didn’t screw their acquired cash cow the way they have the MCU (kind of like a certain acquired science fantasy saga). It would also feel as desperate as it does in the comics. There’s really no way to use them in a movie series and a streaming series no matter who posted it would have a hard time. Sony’s streaming option is limited to game consoles since they got rid of Crackle years ago, and Crunchyroll isn’t an option because it’s not anime. So they’re kind of out.

Basically the only way a Spider-cast without Spider-Man movie works is by somehow still tying it to the current Spider-Man movies, either as set-up for a later Spider-Man movie or a sequel/spinoff deal after appearing in a Spider-Man movie. The rest of Spider-Man’s villains suffer the same issue, but some of them have origins or at least first appearances tied to Spider-Man. Like I wrote earlier, I don’t see any of them getting past an origin movie except for Venom, maybe Morbius given he had a comic for a while, and Jessica’s version of Spider-Woman, especially during her SHIELD agent years. Jessica did have her own Saturday morning cartoon for a season before then. Spidey appeared in one episode as a cameo when she had to help him fight space mummies, and other Marvel and original villains popped up after that as Jessica worked for Justice Magazine. Actually, that’s similar to what they did with Silk, so…maybe she could work? The Penguin ultimately worked because, while I don’t have any interest in it, The Batman did well and Colin Farrell is a good actor given good material to work with.

So it’s not entirely impossible to do Spiderverse minus Spider-Man, but he still needs to be somehow tied to it either as prequel or sequel, then the movie needs to have a good story and faithful adaptation. The question is whether or not Sony has the guts to work with it and Disney/Marvel Studios can be convinced to work with them when all they want is Peter Parker and the money he’ll bring.  There’s always Spider-Ham I guess, but I don’t like the Spiderverse version of Peter Porker so…okay, maybe it IS impossible.