DC’s Gunnverse Got Worse?

Couldn’t let me get past a week, could you, James?

It was mere days ago that I wrote about the confusing continuity James Gunn has going on in his DC Universe, and somehow it got worse before the week was out. Remember this?

I see a lot of comments like this. Gunn doesn’t have to build towards anything if the individual pieces work on their own. But if they crossover at some point, presumably like in Man Of Tomorrow, cool that’s awesome. I think the MCU reprogrammed people’s expectations.

Gunn’s reply to lotusland comics was:

I couldn’t agree more. DCU is just an alternate universe; we can enter at any location or time and tell THAT story. I dislike the idea that individual stories aren’t meaningful unless they lead to something else. People not understanding this is strange to me, because Star Wars has essentially been doing this for 50 years across movies, shows, games and books, admittedly without the tonal variety. Now, this doesn’t mean there isn’t connectivity.

Really? Where? Sharing an actor, like when Nathan Fillion plays Guy Gardner in both James Gunn’s Superman By James Gunn and Green-Is-Stupid Lanterns? That’s rather lazy connectivity. It’s why some people believe the 90s Marvel cartoon was in a shared universe despite no signs of any other connections during the rare crossover.

So what is canon in the current DC movieverse under James Gunn? It depends on Gunn’s mood at the time. Apparently this includes his take on the Suicide Squad. Full disclosure because I know there are “defenders” who like to pretend this matters to any discussion and not a specific review: I have not watched any of the Suicide Squad movies, live-action or animated. I have not played the Suicide Squad game where I’m supposed to kill childhood heroes and I’m told the gameplay is absolute garbage. I haven’t even read the comics because a series about the US government using supervillains to do morally questionable things so writers can reduce the D-list supervillain population is something I care very little about. That doesn’t make me ignorant. It just means my knowledge is not firsthand and I’m relying on official press material and reviews that I trust to be honest in summaries. If that doesn’t work for you, I understand, but hear me out and point out the parts I’m wrong.

And according to an official podcast, as reported on by both Variety and Geeks & Gamers, James Gunn just made his Suicide Squad movie canon. Choose your poison, kids, because I’ll be referring to both as we go over why this just made his DC universe even more of a disaster than it already was.

The shared universe concept isn’t the enemy here. Marvel Studios started out doing it well until Disney insisted they force people to watch everything to understand anything so they’d get more money and viewers. Comics didn’t start doing this until around the time of the Justice Society Of America, and that was just another Golden Age anthology with a framing device, not a proper crossover. Superman and Batman teamed up, but rare did any story come back in another story even in their solo titles. Maybe a character returns and you have a regular cast, but that’s all you get. The Bronze Age and Marvel Comics really started the idea of something happening in one book having an impact in another, even if it was just Spider-Man in New York learning that Iron Man in California dealt with some situation that he wasn’t a part of. A good shared universe makes you curious what’s happening in the other titles without demanding you find out. Like I said the other day (thanks, James), I didn’t watch the Thor movies but I understood the important parts of those events to watch the first Avengers movie because they knew what to tell the audience through the characters.

After the David Ayers Suicide Squad movies didn’t do as well as Warner Brothers wanted, James Gunn was brought in to do his own. He left the project, and James Gunn gave us The Suicide Squad, because this urge to confuse the audience goes back farther than we realized. Numbering the Rambo movies makes more sense. However, both films were in the Snyderverse, the more depressing DC of Zack Snyder. Emphasis on were thanks to Gunn showing up on an official podcast that was literally about whether The Suicide Squad was canon or not.

Variety:

On “The Suicide Squad: Is It Canon? The Official Podcast,” Gunn was joined by Jennifer Holland and Steve Agee, who starred in his debut DC movie “The Suicide Squad,” to discuss which parts of the pre-reboot film will carry over into the new universe. The trio discussed several dead characters from the film and actors that have played multiple DC roles (such as Sean Gunn, Nathan Fillion and Michael Rooker), but ultimately decided that most of the movie is canon to the rebooted DC Universe.

Geeks & Gamers:

During The Suicide Squad: Is It Canon? The Official Podcast, Gunn joined Jennifer Holland and Steve Agee to determine how his 2021 film fits into the rebooted DCU. The conversation produced several remarkable admissions, including uncertainty surrounding the Joker’s existence, Harley Quinn’s negotiable history, and the revelation that The Suicide Squad is apparently now the first canonical DCU movie.

Yes, we’re at the point where the man running DC Studios needs a podcast to explain whether his own movie counts.

To the surprise of nobody who was there to see Peacemaker drop the retcon bomb so that show could move into the Gunnverse from the Snyderverse, the answer was yes. Variety:

“That settles it then. I think that ‘The Suicide Squad’ is within the canon of the DCU. It’s decided,” Gunn said. “I’d say, we have one small asterisk, which is what exactly is the future of Harley Quinn? I want to be given a little leeway with this by the fans because I’m not sure exactly how that’s going to manifest itself. But other than that, I think that we can pretty much say the entire movie is canon. I don’t think there’s a problem.”

As Geeks & Gamers pointed out, there are more than one asterisk from Quinn alone, especially after Gunn also stated that he doesn’t know if the Joker has had his origin in the Gunnverse yet:

Gunn is overseeing a cinematic universe where Batman exists, Harley Quinn’s previous adventures are being preserved, and yet the franchise’s creative architect hasn’t definitively established whether the Joker exists?

Harley Quinn’s traditional origin is inseparable from the Joker. Her transformation from psychiatrist Harleen Quinzel into one of Gotham City’s most recognizable criminals is foundational to the character.

If Gunn admits this, and apparently he did, how does this work? Harley Quinn was supposed to be a one-time “moll” for the Joker in Batman: The Animated Series, a little bit of fun Paul Dini was having with his friend Arleen Sorkin after an episode of the soap opera she was in put her in a clown costume. She was so popular with fans that she kept coming back, a graphic novel later made canon in the show and direct-to-video adaptation gave her an origin. While some feminists want to turn her into an antihero who was always going to go nuts it requires another retcon to multiversal continuity to make that happen and takes the depression out of her history. Harleen Quinzel was a closed off psychologist seeking her name in the papers who thought she could cure the Joker, only for him to turn her by using her repressed urge for attention and someone to connect to. She later reformed after the Joker died and was last seen chronologically trying to keep her nieces out of following her path to evil. Her backstory has been used in similar works, also adding in the chemical bath rather than the mask she wore in the show.

That doesn’t just require a retcon without the Joker, it requires a whole new history, and there’s talk that she’s already not the same character fans loved enough to bring into the comics and numerous other continuities.

However, if Gunn’s Suicide Squad is now canon (because he worked on it, the same reason Peacemaker jumped universes), does that mean the first movie is canon? What about the Birds Of Prey movie everyone disliked? We already have the failed Blue Beetle movie canon because they’re using the same actor for Jaime Reyes, while Jason Momoa went from Aquaman to Lobo. This also means that James Gunn’s Superman By James Gunn is no longer the start of the Gunnverse, which it already wasn’t because Creature Commandos was supposed to be canon, since Gunn said he wanted animated projects canon as well. I’m assuming the YouTube shorts with his dog cosplaying as Krypto also count and…

Do we want that? Bad enough it’s the only kid-friendly thing Gunn is shoveling out into the world from his take because we’re still gatekeeping kids from superheroes outside of this junk and the pre-to-elementary school kids on Disney Junior and Cartoonito. So his version of Harley Quinn, which became Margot Robbie’s take on Harley Quinn for her disaster of an adaptation, is only canon if Margo Robbie says yes, but the show version of Peacemaker and company takes cues from his Suicide Squad, which took cues from David Ayers’ version of the Squad where that take on Harley actually comes from, but all of that was Snyder’s universe, not Gunn’s except now it is Gunn’s but that doesn’t explain Superman or Aquaman or Lobo or the Flash, which Gunn called one of his favorite superhero movies so maybe that’s going to be canon now, and if they’re using the same Jaime actor does that mean his movie is now canon to this continuity, which raises even more history questions with the backstory of the Blue Beetle….

I don’t even want to get into his comments from another Variety article stating that his version of Peacemaker, John Stewart, and Krypto are going to become “diamonds” of the DC universe alongside Superman, Batman, and (arguably) Wonder Woman. That’s something fans decide, and they aren’t even cheered on enough to reach the coal stage. Geeks & Gamers also challenged Gunn’s statement that past Batman actors were chosen for star power rather than the right person for the job. (Serials, cartoons, and Adam West sadly absent from the discussion.

You know who’s NOT the right person for the job despite the earned star power? James Gunn. I’m not questioning is directing skills, because I didn’t watch his Superman take and I still don’t want to, but he clearly doesn’t know or care about these characters. James Gunn wants to make James Gunn movies and that’s it. He doesn’t want to build up to anything? Fine. Just make unattached movies because he clearly doesn’t want to make a shared universe, but he will share actors, ironically for the same recognition that the alleged “star power” gave Batman, which will just confuse people as to whether they share a continuity. The CW’s DC shows were easier to follow. The New 52 was just barely easier to follow as a rebooted universe.

At this point, Skydance’s first order of business should be to shelve any DC universe for a few years, take time to find people in the important areas who actually want to do this right, decide if they want to try the shared universe again or go back to the days where they didn’t share a universe and NOt do a crossover, and actually commit to making good adaptations for the fans that are good stories for regular viewers that don’t need the homework. In short, just do it right…and without James Gunn.

Crap, just had a last-minute thought. Scooby-Doo has teamed with DC heroes in cartoons and comics, and they’re now owned by the same people. Are his Scooby-Doo movies going to be canon to the DC Gunnverse now?